Yes, we heard constant bs on Larry’s estate selling, Claro adventures with a rouge off shore broker, weak kneed shareholders and shorters. Some even posted that MDMN knew who was selling and it was one person, then one person and some minor shareholders.
All BS
Whatever was done is done. Could people just stop beating a dead horse over and over?? Please you don’t realize that your constant repeats are hurting your investment. Let Auryn & Co. handle this, bitching and moaning is not helping actually its doing the opposite.
Hi AVC,
In regards to your comment:
“O/S didn’t change overnight, just the knowledge of the existence did. The “market” knew the right number of shares, and would have adjusted as the shares were sold into it. If the 1.5 billion shares were literally dumped overnight, then you would expect a 50% drop, as the “market” adjusted…”
I say, winner, winner, chicken dinner! I think we’ve already experienced the majority of the share price depression repercussions of this apparent fraud. Share prices in the market are set by what economists and market experts refer to as the “price discovery process”. The “supply” of readily sellable shares (whether issued legally or illegally and whether or not perceived to exist by shareholders or prospective investors) interacts with the “demand” variable to determine share prices. Medinah’s “price discovery process” has been working just fine; it always does. However, it “discovered” a price based on 3 billion shares being “pseudo-issued” and very much “outstanding” and thus representing the “supply” variable. We shareholders just didn’t realize that the “supply” variable had been tweaked upwards by a factor of 2.
Instead what we noticed was massive selling into the buying induced by clearly positive press releases. It was as if a blanket of selling had “capped” the market. This has led to the perception of there being a “disconnect” between what we INCORRECTLY thought was our market cap ( 1.4 billion shares multiplied by our past share price) and the perceived value of our assets. Now the task becomes to clawback as much of that artificially enhanced “supply” variable as we can so that an accurate, much higher share price can be “discovered” in the presence of unmanipulated supply and demand variables.
Not only has the “supply” variable been doubled the “effective demand” variable has been artificially reduced at the same time. The “effective demand” is the demand for shares allowed to interact with the “supply” variable in the open market. If a bunch of “demand” has been being satiated by buying (invisible to us) illegitimate shares from insiders then it never got felt in the market.
With a clean start involving the removal of our own “blinders” and with going into production the “demand” variable will be determined more by mining industry standards . If the stench of all of this fraudulent activity refuses to go away then SHAREHOLDER REWARDS should be predicated on earnings and the generosity of cash dividends WHICH IS TOTALLY INDEPENDENT OF THE STENCH. In fact, from one point of view, the worse the stench the better if management can allocate resources to buying back and canceling artificially cheap shares whose price was NOT derived by legitimate supply and demand interactions or the value of the assets but by the stench factor. The key is for management to have an OPTION on how to provide shareholder rewards. The proximity of going into production couldn’t have been timed better for news like this.
If Medinah did not have Masglas as a committed financial backer and they had to go out and raise funds by selling mispriced shares or locating a financier willing to ignore the stench then they would indeed be facing an uphill climb. This entire situation represents an enigma. What are the odds that the 1-in-1,000 or so junior explorer fortunate enough to make a significant discovery, land a partner like Masglas and get the property into production would turn out to have these other issues playing out at the very same time?
It’s going to be interesting for the investment community to weigh out the pros and cons of an investment in Medinah with such a “bipolar” presentation. I suppose the most important parameters will be estimating how long the stench might last or can management gain access to positive cash flow in order to lever the presence of the stench while it is there by buying back and cancelling shares. The mineral assets are certainly not going anywhere and we all look forward to the day in which the focus will be on these assets.
The saving grace in all of this has been the role of Masglas/AMC. They have turned out to be the moral compass we’ve apparently been missing. After reaching the depths of the abyss that we’ve just experienced and finally receiving an explanation for the easy to notice “disconnect” between our market cap and the value of our assets from this day onwards all investment bets are going to be predicated on the ability of Masglas to lever their financial wherewithal and technical expertise to monetize this mining district. I guess sometimes you need to journey downwards to the depths of a very deep abyss in order to find the bedrock to launch from. In the future I would anticipate a “split screen” type of scenario in which the mining developments will be on one side with the share structure issues playing out on the other. I would think that positive developments on the mining fronts and the resultant increase in values should hasten the correction of the share structure issues.
Another consideration is that the alleged perpetrators of this behavior are already out of the picture and that the new management team is spearheading the clean up efforts.
Does anyone think Auryn will issue any money to MDMN before this whole fraud thing is cleaned up and completed? Auryn will not want their dividendable shares to be diluted anymore than we do. I Think our dividends and final buy out will now be delayed for several years while this proceeds through the courts and criminal process. Not only has Les diluted our dividends he may have delayed them indefinitely.
Auryn giving Medinah(and the rest of its shareholders) money won’t be delayed especially since there was little chance of it to begin with until starting sometime during the upcoming Winter. (The smoke that remains now should have cleared up by then.)
Certainly Medinah won’t be giving any of that out until things are sorted out. If the price is sub-penny at that point, it would make more sense for them to simply buy shares from the market and retire them.
How to do go about that “task”? That’s why I suggested a reverse split might assist that effort while simultaneously hugging Auryn for getting us the heck out of the wild wild west Les &/or Greg were sheriffs in. What’s the audit process? I look forward to something more than the polls that may have got this ball rolling in the first place.
I understand more than I care to. The only suggestions I can offer is to not look at the price, then think forward and follow Auryn. After that it’s personal pain and financial management to get through. Our goal is to hold out for as long as we can and sell as needed. It’s a shame that so many of us were played for our honesty and hope. Best of luck to you and those around you.
As a reverse split would simply result in Masglas owning the same percentage of medinah that they own now, just like the rest of us shareholders. How is that hug suppost to make them or anyone else feel warm and fuzzy? What would change?
What previous experience do you have with fraud/stock theft makes you think this will be cleared up anytime soon?
Being cleared up by Winter could be hardly considered “soon”. (Cleared in the sense that Medinah/Auryn will know exactly where we stand.)
Unfortunately, I have been involved in a handful. This is the first one that somebody outside the Company itself that did all the harm. Because of this, I am very hopeful about a positive resolution. It is not the Company or its assets that are rotten, it is just Les(and perhaps his friend Juan.). There is a whole plate of various assets that can and will be seized to redress the damage.
If a reverse stock split is done, everybody looses unless I am sadly mistaken. I just went through one and ended up with less shares and a continued stock decline until there is almost nothing left:((((
Yes indeed. I find that the short folk love to talk about reverse splits. They love them. A reverse only makes sense when a Company actually has a positive cash flow so any changes in the share price can be taken advantage of while using a higher price to move to a better exchange or otherwise attract new investors.
Nobody gives a flying F what some people on a message board have to say. Do you think people invest in a stock based on what some guy named “hulkster” said on the internet? If you haven’t figured out who and what has been hurting your investment by now then I can see why you are confused by the discussion taking place.
Disclaimer: no offense to the name “hulkster”, used only as an example
Maybe not, but they might steer clear of it!
TWO PREDICTIONS: The worst is yet to come / There will be no meeting in Las Vegas on October 1
Because I have been hoping and hoping that I might in the end turn out to be wrong, and hoping and hoping that the Smart Money folk(s) here might (after having been wrong 10,000 times) finally be right for once, I have mostly held my tongue on this board for the past five years. Often I have resorted to playing the fool (or maybe playing a greater fool than I actually am), which has always seemed to upset this board’s Smart Money (I have had posts instantly deleted and I have also been threatened with banning), but I have seen the Smart Money turn out to be this board’s biggest fools and the most harmful of all — even if they are even now unable to see it…
But now I’m going to share two tidbits of personal history and due diligence, and then I’m going to make a couple of predictions that are based on NOTHING except my gut (which is easily as good a predictor as any other tool that has been employed by anyone else on this board.
Personal history/due diligence Tidbit #1:
Probably Everyone on this board who has ever recommended MDMN to a friend or family member (or anyone who has ever simply brought the subject up for discussion) has encountered the same ridicule and shame that I’ve encountered. Since I have so very desperately wanted to, for once in my life, be right, since I have wanted so very desperately to do something smart and brilliant and awe-inspiring in a financial sense, I ignored all of this ridicule and shame.
(Brief timeout here, so that I can toot my own horn for a moment: I began buying this stock in November 2011 on the bedazzling advice of a friend who I highly respected. Within three months I sank $40k of my own money into it, and, because of my recommendation, fifteen friends of mine also bought the stock. Approximately two weeks after the “done, done, done” meeting of February 2012, I wrote a long email to each of my friends and said that I apologized for having sucked them in here, that I no longer trusted this stock (at the “done, done, done” meeting, we were told that the contract would be finalized within a few days — just as soon as the done-done-done-sters could get back to Chile and make a trip to the notario — a formality, we were told, and when that did not happen, and when no explanation was offered I sat down and wrote the aforementioned letter), and while my fifteen friends were of course free to do whatever they wanted here (at that time, most of them could have gotten out with a profit or small loss), I could no longer in good conscience recommend MDMN — when you say you’re going to do something, and you don’t do it, and you can’t even offer a simple apology or explanation, well… there’s no way you (I) can with a clean conscience recommend something like that (MDMN) to friends… I believe that this letter saved my friendships with all fifteen of them, even though I do, appropriately, still get a lot of ribbing from them…
Nonetheless, I stuck it out here, wanting to be right, wanting to be rich — in fact I upped my investment to $125k — my entire life savings, which this afternoon is now worth less than $12k. (Don’t feel sorry for me — my wife has a 401k that does not include any MDMN — we am fine — I am lucky — and I know that there are people reading this who are much less fortunate, and I’m very sorry about that.)
As the months wore on, I so very very badly did want to believe in the continual barrage of positive encouragement being posted on this board, mostly by one individual, even though every single bit of it turned out to be wrong… And during two different periods along the way, I actually came to believe that it was as good as fact (almost “done-done-done”) that I was going to profit some $2-5 million. And believing that — believing that I was about to enter a financial realm I’ve never known — was, to me, a very interesting and heady experience, and it was certainly worth something — in the same way that a good wet dream can certainly be fondly remembered.
Anyway, in a moment of wavering, in October 2013, I wrote an email to a friend I grew up with. We were extremely close, and while I did not want him to think that I was the complete idiot that I have in fact turned out to be, I also wanted his opinion on MDMN, because this very close friend had grown up to work in the fraud department of a major bank/brokerage, and he was, I knew, considered one of the world’s leading experts in ferreting out corruption and fraud in publicly traded companies. How about that! I described my investment, and here was my friend’s response:
"Took a very quick look at the web site. Noticed that none of the
management have any mining experience. In fact their experience does
not inspire confidence. Casino operators, a retired LAPD Sergeant, a
health supplements promoter with a background in ‘multi-level
marketing’ – he doesn’t say that, but that’s what it is.
“Unless someone could make a really compelling case otherwise, would
stay away from this myself. Were I still working for the bank, would
note that based on what I’ve seen would recommend the highest degree
of caution and scrutiny should anyone still want to go ahead with
possible business dealings. Afraid there’s alarm bells going off in
my head at least.”
It was not what I’d hoped to hear (I had hoped to hear: “Thank you, thank you, thank you for this fabulous tip! I’ve bought $100k for myself…”), and I ignored it.
Instead, I sent an email to another friend — more high-powered, more successful, who runs his own tremendously successful hedge fund, and on the side advises a stable of high-profile NFL players on how to handle and invest their money — and while he responded in a phone call instead of in writing, I think I can accurately sum it up: “Hey-man-you-know-I-love-you-but-please-don’t-ever-send-me-an-email-like-that-again! I-would-never-in-a-million-years-touch-a-stock-like-that-with-a-thousand-foot-pole-and-I-would-not-want-anyone-I-know-thinking-that-I-might-and-I-certainly-don’t-want-any-paper-trail-of-such-stupidity. By-the-way-you’re-a-effing-idiot-and-I-am-not-kidding-and-you-know-I-love-you-and-I-am-not-kidding.”
I laughed, hung up, ignored his advice, and hung on another year and a half before I performed…
Personal history/due diligence Tidbit #2:
I have a blood cousin, about 40 years old, a very busy hotshot securities lawyer who worked for several years in New York, but a few years ago moved to Toronto. In February of 2015, there was talk on this board of us MDMN shareholders maybe growing multiple pairs and filing a lawsuit against the MDMN board of directors. I sent my cousin an email in which I described the broad outline of the MDMN situation, and asked if he might steer me toward someone who handled those kinds of cases. His response was that these sorts of cases are his specialty: "Representing the shareholders against the company and management…” I asked where he did most of his work. “On the Toronto stock exchange.” I asked if he’d ever heard of Auryn or Maglas or any of their principals, and I named all the principals I could identify. He didn’t reply to that email for several days, so I followed up, apologizing for taking up his time, but had he gotten my last email? He sent me a short response:
"Brad, no problem. It is difficult for many people to digest the pill that they were swindled. Trust me.”
I left it at that, never contacted him again in regards to MDMN. In the ensuing year and a half I have listened to an endless string of ridiculous "due diligence” on this board, plus an endless string of ridiculous positive predictions.
Now I have two predictions of my own. I hope that I am wrong on both of them.
PREDICTION NUMBER ONE:
There will be no shareholder’s informational meeting in October.
In the next week or two, we will receive a communication (well written, completely logical and understandable), saying that, with such uncertainty in the air, it would be unwise to have such a meeting now, and it is being postponed until a later date when there is more clarity and information to convey. Sorry.
PREDICTION NUMBER TWO:
The worst is yet to come. Before October arrives, MDMN will be trading for half-a-cent or perhaps much lower.
NOT A PREDICTION, BUT JUST A LITTLE PIECE OF FORWARD-LOOKING ADVISEMENT (CONSIDER IT A BONUS)
With every involved party (except the shareholders) already lawyering up (sometimes, even with the same lawyer!), it will be months (but more probably years) before we stockholders will even be able to see the shape of the legal battle ahead. It will not be any sort of surprise to see trading in MDMN halted. It will not be any sort of surprise to see the Chilean Ministry of Mines intervene and suspend any mining permits that have been issued (and make this suspension official with a trip to the dreaded notario).
And I’ll make a one-share bet with each of you: I will bet that you have already thought of all of the above, and probably much more that is beyond the grasp of my little pea brain.
Again, hoping I’m wrong. (I do have tickets and reservations for Las Vegas.)
But okay. Let the bashing or the banning begin.
— madmen
My suggestion is to merely make a gesture to return to the 1.5B share count we agreed to with Auryn. It’s just a gesture, don’t read anything more into it than that if you prefer.
Very heartfelt post, and yes it likely hits very near to home with many that have endured these many years. Regarding the following two points you make:
I’ll make my comments very short for now until further developments are revealed or made official. Not a prediction, but rather a hope. Apparently, things have been put under the magnifying glass since early in the year, and there have been surprises that have come to light because of legal processes already under way. AURYN/MASGLAS has been doing everything possible to salvage what is left of this company and will continue to do so until we hear otherwise. There will not be a suspension of trading on MDMN. A suspension would likely have occurred earlier, but was averted with the installation of a new MDMN BOD. All mining permits are with AURYN, not MDMN, and Chile is amenable to seeing these mining concessions developed by AURYN, the “present owners” of the mining claims. AURYN has been doing everything by the book, including the most recent actions … especially the imperative of installing MDMN’s new management team. Development of the claims from here forward, is largely planned to be self funded. A profitable and successful development of the claims will be the primary means of monetization for shareholders going forward. IMO
I hope all who duped us go to jail for a loooooooooog time.
Fyi…the informational meeting is a go. The recent events make it even more imperative to have it
Various insiders will be there so shareholders can speak with them directly… Some may have forgotten but it is business as usual with Auryn which is the main part of the meeting.
FYI… The first contract was null and void because MDMN had already exceeded the share cap, the second contract clearly stated “All previous contract obligations were obsolete”, done… The new contract took all that into consideration, Gary was asked to come to Chile and represent MDMN without any other representative’s, it is my opinion, that Auryn knew that there were things a miss" JJ’s fiasco", it was time to put people in place to cover their investment and to pursue it to the extent of the law. Remember these were the one’s left sitting on the sidelines when the ufulander debacle took place. They knew that crooks had the run, they knew the product, so they systematically took them out one by one, they are now in a position to not only produce, but also recoup much of what has been lost… They know what they are doing…