Not to mention they got rid of Chapin, Vittal, collapsed MMC, moved their base to Indy and added Goodin to the Auryn BOD after his solo visit to Chile. Perhaps Goodin is the person who discovered the alleged illegalities and reported it to Auryn. Just food for thought.
Can someone please opine on “Dr. Kleen”. Was he not the individual that went down to ADL and produced a first hand account of the mine and the gold it held? I’m a bit confused as to why he has been lumped in with Les, Vittal, GC and the rest of the scumbags who screwed us over. Was Dr. Kleen complicit in this and if so, how do we know? I get that the aforementioned folks are most likely in on it but why does this board suspect Dr. Kleen?
[quote=“TSXVTrader, post:1182, topic:1377, full:true”]
Can someone please opine on “Dr. Kleen”. Was he not the individual that went down to ADL and produced a first hand account of the mine and the gold it held? [/quote]Yes. He was also an investor in NUOCO and by all counts a “friend” of the company. Though there are probably few that wish to be labeled a “friend” of the company nowadays.
[quote=“TSXVTrader, post:1182, topic:1377, full:true”]
I’m a bit confused as to why he has been lumped in with Les, Vittal, GC and the rest of the scumbags who screwed us over. [/quote]
Because when shareholders have been wronged and are pissed, mob rules and guilt-by-association takes precedence over fact and deliberation. Over on I-Hub they’re accusing Dr. Decosta and Mike Gold as being in on it too. Maybe I’m in the minority, but generally I’d prefer to wait for the facts to come out before fashioning a noose for anyone.
I believe the calculus regarding Dr. Kleen being lumped in here is that because he was an investor in NUOCO along with Chapin, and these guys got a favorable deal there without consideration for or by other MDMN shareholders, then they must be suspect, if not guilty, of the share swindling scheme perpetrated by Les Price. While I can agree with the first contention about the impropriety of the NUOCO deal, I don’t see a cause-and-effect relation to the current fiasco and don’t think we should even be bringing up Dr. Kleen’s name unless facts come about specifically implicating any wrongdoing on his part.
[quote=“TSXVTrader, post:1182, topic:1377, full:true”]Was Dr. Kleen complicit in this and if so, how do we know?[/quote]We don’t know. But apparently guilt-by-association is cause enough in this forum.
[quote=“TSXVTrader, post:1182, topic:1377, full:true”]I get that the aforementioned folks are most likely in on it but why does this board suspect Dr. Kleen?[/quote]This is an example of my previous point. Shareholders are rightfully angry at what has been perpetrated by Price. Unfortunately, without knowing the facts, you and others have pre-concluded that Chapin and Vittal are “most likely in on it”. This is wrong IMO and as one post leads to another over time and blurs the opinions with the facts (or lack thereof), the game of telephone prevails morphing Chapin’s or Vittal’s involvement from an opined suggestion to a presumed fact in the court of public opinion. Meanwhile the current company (and presumably Auryn) have specifically stated that it occurred “without the knowledge of past and present Directors and Officers of the Company”. Does TheMiningPlay all of the sudden have more knowledge of the facts and situation than Auryn and the MDMN BOD?
I’m not going to defend Chapin’s or Vittal’s culpability in allowing this to happen on their watch. Whether they realized it or not, it was their job and their fiduciary responsibility to protect the company and its shareholders. However this situation came to be is inexcusable and they should be held accountable in that regard. Regardless, I’m certainly not going to take the next damnifying step of saying they were in on it with Les when thus far there is no fact that indicates this to be the case.
Until I hear something verifiably different, I’m choosing to stick with the facts as stated in the last PR. In the meantime, I suggest shareholders watch “The Ox-Bow Incident”.
Steve is one of the good guys. He did basically everything he could to help Medinah…much of his efforts were behind the scenes. He poured a lot of money into Nuoco with the thinking that a gold producing mine there would help Medinah obtain a favorable JV being a better position of strength. To date, after years of putting money in, he hasn’t received any money out of it and only has a 1% interest in Auryn to show for it. (Most probably didn’t realize there wasn’t actually a line of people willing to fund the project. Myself along with a number of other large shareholders were asked to participate at the LDM but declined.(Note that the terms offered to us were not as good as was later given to participants. ) Lots of people here on MP are very loose with the facts and reinvent history on almost a daily basis.)
There are only 2 bad guys associated with Medinah; Juan and Les.
There are a LOT of unsavory Medinah shareholders to be sure.
Note: Steve’s percent is actually 0.5 % of Auryn.
HR, thanks for your thoughtful response. I appreciate your candor and will be more mindful of my posts in the future. I do understand how mobs can rule the day especially in times when wrongs have been committed. Hopefully everything will come to light and a much clearer picture will emerge on exactly what happened and who was involved.
No worries TSXVTrader. We just need to wait for the facts to come out. I hope we get an update from the company with details that help clarify the hows, whats and whys, but in the meantime I get how shareholders are beyond frustrated here.
I usually don’t disagree that much with what John says, but on this point regarding Dr. Kleen, I actually agree 100% with the MG persona.
For the record, like I have already said previously on this board, I was also asked to participate at the LDM but declined.
Hi Emerging 1,
I think I like the “split screen” analogy the best for predicting Medinah’s near term future. On one side of the movie screen we’ll have the mining developments playing out and on the other side the “share structure” developments. What we need to keep in mind is that Medinah is now a somewhat robotic “holding company” that “holds” a 25% stake in three fourths of the ADL mining district and a 36.25% stake in one fourth of the district. As a mere “holding company” there’s not a whole lot of “operations” going on from an intra-Medinah corporate point of view. Masglas/AMC is running both the “mining developments” side of the movie screen and the “share structure” side of the screen. They not only control the BOD but they are also the largest shareholder. Progress on the “mining developments” side of the screen might be related to going into production at the Caren Mine and later the Fortuna open pit. I personally am looking forward to the drilling at the Pegaso Nero and confirming the Cu/Mo porphyry prospects there.
As “jak167” has been capably teaching us, the “share structure” side of the screen will play out at its own pace depending on developments and the cooperation provided by the various players. Progress on this side can be measured by the cancellation of inappropriately issued shares and perhaps any clawing back of funds. Since our new baseline position is 3 billion shares issued and outstanding and a share price of about $0.012 our current market cap is about $36 million. I’d think of this as square one. Progress on either side of the movie screen should theoretically increase the market cap and share price unless “the market” is already factoring in some quick share cancellations or production being imminent. In conjunction with this clean up procedure, hopefully what will be missing is this pernicious selling that has never seemed to stop despite the positive nature of the mining developments.
Both sides of the movie screen represent fairly standard “processes” that are gone through. With time the “mining developments” side of the screen will no doubt displace the “share structure” side and the “share structure” issues might eventually be represented as an asterisk in the overall story.
In zooming out, we need to remember that Masglas has eleven 100% owned mining projects they are developing in addition to their 65% owned AMC/ADL project. The ADL appears to be the “flagship” asset in this entire scenario so I would imagine that Masglas/AMC would be highly financially incentivized to have the “share structure” movie play out as promptly as possible. Somewhere in the fray we still have Cerro and Nuoco still owning 5% stakes in AMC/ADL. It will be interesting to see how the “share structure” movie relates to any consolidation of these two lesser AMC stakes.
A special thank you to “jak167” for sharing his legal expertise in these difficult to understand legal matters. Through back channels I have learned that due to the number of business deals that the overall Masglas “family” has completed through the years they ended up buying their own legal firm. So I think we’re in very good hands from both a mining and legal expertise point of view. Masglas’s being Medinah’s largest shareholder should keep their financial incentives in alignment with that of the average Medinah shareholder. It wasn’t that long ago they were paying up to 10-cents per share on that first 150 million they bought out of the open market.
For those who can’t see it… A seller has been flipping his 1,259,537 shares offered at the ask back and forth between ETRF and CDEL and walked his own ask down from 0.0122 to 0.0121 to 0.012 to 0.0118 to 0.0117, then back up to 0.0121 and suddenly pulled the entire ask leaving ETRF with a 10K ask at 0.0125. This seller started this after the earlier buyer moved up to 0.0129 and purchased the remainder of his 500K bid at the ask.
I wonder how the games will proceed once Auryn announces officially that they (we) are in production? I’m looking forward, with the rest of you, to the answer.
Mike I have no problem with Steve K .What I would like is some disclosure on what was spent on the LDM (Nuoco),what was mined if anything, what happened to the tailings(JJ) , how much was spent on the project and how much each of the 6 individuals put in to earn 63.75% of the project. The bottom line is what did the group do and spend on the property. When they initially said they discovered a copper skarn and gold vien clearing out a area for a parking lot WELL I FOUND THAT HARD TO BELEIVE IN MEDINAH LAND.
I relistened to the prayer that Dr Kleen was asked to give. The prayer was specifically given regarding Larry Regis who was in such poor health at the time that he was unable to attend. He subsequently died. It is amazing what you choose to remember.
It seems inconsistent to blame Les while trying to accuse others of jumping the gun on Chapin, Vittal, etc. (you did the same thing a week before the 3B was revealed). There is no “proof” that Les or JJ were directly involved either. The main point is that many of these gentlemen were involved, either knowingly or not, while they held positions of oversight and accountability. That’s a fact Jack.
And it’s worth pointing out that the same individuals who, for the better part of a decade, ran to the defense of Les and JJ are now the first to defend other directors. Nobody is working with all of the facts so speculation is a given but we can apply known facts to our current situation and identify some very clear trends.
I remembered exactly what I posted. Kleen opened the SHM with a prayer. A highly unusual event regardless of the circumstances. I also remember Kleen vehemently defending Chapin on this board. Certainly his prerogative as a close friend. I also remember all of the details re: giving up the LDM for a song with ever changing terms (always shifting in favor of the insiders). If an outside party took a hard look at that “transaction” there would be a sea of red flags. For all we know Chapin, Kleen, Vital, etc could have been unknowing participants but they were directly involved and, as I stated earlier, I empathize with guys like Chapin if that turns out to be the case b/c they clearly have the most to lose.
I think they will be able to show that Les also redirected funds out of the LDM project and into his own but we will have to wait to see what the evidence shows. I’m sure any accounting for that project will be in complete disarray.
Your welcome, I’m glad I can contribute.
Im also glad to hear some info RE Masglas has been exchanged, regardless of the method or accuracy (although Im not doubting). Hopefully they can secure MDMN’s independent representation. It would indicate Masglas is responsive to shareholder concerns, especially since its a large shareholder itself. I feel the best chance we have to resolve the share issue comes from our independence from past bad actors, so MDMN can concerned itself with itself, and not trying to cover up or ignore past misdeeds of the bad actors. Hard to do if MDMN and the alleged bad actors are represented by the same attorney.
I agree with your statement of the former and existing BOD members having accountability for their actions. It’s based upon their fiduciary duties as BOD members. The first link goes to a quick, more layman’s overview of the fiduciary duties. The second link comes from a Penn State University Law Review article which goes into must greater detail of the fiduciary duties, which should be read if your a masochist or need to fall asleep in a hurry.
Basically you have duties of care, disclosure, and loyalty. Most of the time, if a BOD discloses material info RE a transaction, reasonably educated themselves before making a decision, and acted for what they thought was the benefit of the company (even if the decision terrible), a shareholder will be hard pressed to argue a breach of duties. However, this dynamic changes when transactions occur with insiders. These types of transactions create conflicts of interest between the company and the insider. In this case, the disclosure becomes mandatory and the BOD should recuse themselves for independent decision maker. To not do so goes directly to violating the duties of care (a good decision), disclosure, and especially loyalty to the company.
Based upon the info at hand, I feel the BOD members past and present have violated the fiduciary duties. Now, what will Masglas MDMN’s largest shareholder do about it? We shall see.
If we are dealing with facts at hand, it is fact that the discrepancies cited were perpetrated from MMChile, which only had 2 directors.
Any involvement of MMInc usa is more speculative, therefore the care not to rush to judgement. Avoiding unproven accusations and “defending” are different things. Much is left to be learned.
Take a look at the post preceding yours to better understand the discussion.
Yes. And the fact they bought it from MDMN (us) for ??? and we get 30% FCI
which then turned into 15%. Yea Kleen is clean (BS).