Medinah Minerals (MDMN) - 2016 Q4- General Discussion

Mangelsen wrote:This is penny land and if this surprises you, you should have never invested in the first place.

I’m not proud of it, but I am one of those people who had no clue what I was doing here.

When I drank the kool aid, I knew almost nothing about the importance of share count (and I still know almost nothing).

I have no idea whether the scenario I’ve laid out below is likely, but I would appreciate an opinion from Baldy or Trade Rich or Wizard, or all three.

I am planning to go to the shareholder meeting, and I just want to know a few basics.

I don’t want to get snowed.

Here’s the scenario I see:

— As Baldy said many many times, Auryn was never under any circumstances going to give $100 million to the crooks at Medinah.

— But Auryn DID want the rights to the mountain, and by signing the three-year, $100 million option agreement, Auryn bought time to figure out a way to gain control of the mountain.

— Auryn management and lawyers were smart enough to stipulate in the contract that Medinah shares were capped at 1.5 billion for the life of the agreement.

— When Auryn’s management and Medinah’s management agreed (earlier this year) to tear up the old contract and enter the new agreement, Auryn’s management and lawyers certainly knew that the 1.5 billion share cap would cease to exist.

— Furthermore, Auryn’s management and lawyers (knowing, as they did, just what sort of shady operators were in control of Medinah) could certainly assume/predict/foresee that Medinah’s insiders were likely to go wild with share issuances, as they knew that we shareholders had approved up to 3 billion shares in 2012, and Auryn had also, for years, had an up close view of Medinah’s insiders in action. (I never did read anyone on this board speculate about this foxes-in-the-henhouse possibility until it was revealed — what, a month ago? — that all 3 billion shares had in fact been issued.)

— Auryn has been thinking long-term — in terms of decades, instead of months or “next week” like me and so many others here on this board have been thinking and hoping — and to Auryn the outstanding number of Medinah shares is all-but irrelevant over the life of the contract (or is probably even totally irrelevant right this minute).

— But Auryn felt that the only way Auryn could secure the rights to the Alto, was to turn a blind eye (at least temporarily) to what Auryn was pretty certain the shady folks at Medinah would do as soon as the 1.5 billion share cap was rendered moot by the new contract.

— In the end, Auryn paid some large cash sum — many millions — to Medinah’s insiders (Auryn also paid the cash costs of keeping Medinah solvent — something in the less-than-$1million range), but in exchange Auryn locked up the rights to what Auryn believes is untold billions of dollars worth of ore on the Alto.

— The key thing Auryn had to do to achieve takeover of the mountain was to throw us Medinah shareholders under the bus and hope that maybe a fair number of us could somehow tuck-and-roll and (when the dust cleared, perhaps several years down the road) might safely (and miraculously) come out the other side.

— Maybe this is the only strategy Auryn could see to avoid paying Medinah’s insiders $100 million (which was never going to happen).

But if there is some other explanation that I am overlooking, I’d like to hear it (from Baldy or Trade Rich or Wizard).

I anticipate being very impressed by the folks at Auryn. But if they did throw me under the bus once, I would like to know that going in to the shareholders meeting.

— madmen

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Are we supposed to read any more conspiracy theories? This is absolutely ridiculous! In a week ALL the questions y’all might have are gonna be answered at the SHM directly from the source.

Wizard already stated we will be told the truth even if it’s not rosy. Give it a rest, please!

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Problem is, judging from the informal share counts at and around the time of the 2012 AGM, the “treasury” of authorized shares had already been plundered to a great extent.

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Don’t forget Wizards quickie estimate of 200-300M shares short
I don’t believe those included any excess shares issued
It could be mind boggling to know actual no of shares owned
Re the share issuance to 2.9B, it certainly appears these thieves have been selling heavily into any kind of good news. It almost looks like a f$"& you selling spree.
I realize they would have a hard time selling that many shares on the open market but why not hang on to them when dividends start coming?
Is the issuance of shares over 1.5B cap the reason Letts vacated Auryn?
I’m looking forward to some reports on Caren and any additional drilling and potential dividends.
I’m also looking forward to hearing WTF happened to let these badtards get away with what they did and plans to recover and ****. Would like to see Les in prison so *****.

Let’s keep it out of the gutter, please…

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Perhaps someone should slip Les’s name & pertinent info to the FBI, skip the SEC or perhaps the FBI would request the SEC to dig into it.

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What I can’t get my head around is how 1.5B treasury shares were sold and the money didn’t even fleeting show up in the financials.

Even at $0.02 that’s 30 Million dollars !

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This is the part of your post that I want to respond to. I don’t have the answers to the rest of it so all I would be doing is speculating. At this time I only have two choices: sell my shares at a loss of over 90% or to stay invested and see where Auryn takes us. At this point, my attitude is that I really have only one choice. I might as well risk the last ten percent and see where this goes.

As for the importance of a company’s share structure I’m going to be blunt here. To not know the basic understanding of “outstanding shares”, “authorized shares”, and “float”, and not understand how they are absolutely necessary in determining the price of your stock is a cardinal sin and one should not invest in anything unless that information is understood and applied to any investment you are considering. Every share of stock that a company issues, effectively making it part of the “outstanding shares” decreases the value of every other share that exists. LP, and whomever else might be involved, in increasing our OS from 1.5 billion to basically 3 billion, has DECREASED THE VALUE OF YOUR STOCK BY 50%.

Outstanding shares is the number that you divide a company’s value by in order to determine the market valuation of the company. Each share that exists in a company represents a percentage of that company which is absolutely equal to every other share, so every new share that is created and issued decreases your ownership of the company as well as the value of each existing share. Each share that is created and issued has the effect of lowering the stock price.

Now for those of you whose minds work better pictorially and/or using analogies…

Think of Medinah, the company, as a pie. The outstanding shares number tells you how many equal slices of the pie need to be cut. The slices are always cut to equal sizes. When a company dilutes they are effectively saying that we are going to create more slices, so each current slice has to be made smaller to accomodate these new slices we’re making.

Now the nice thing that this analogy doesn’t allow is that as Medinah starts getting revenues from its partnership with Auryn it will effectively be increasing the size of the pie and therefore, as long as some asshole in the company doesn’t issue more shares, our shares will increase in value… or at least they should.

So, using the pie analogy, our good buddy Les Price and any accomplices he may have had, as a result of almost doubling the outstanding share structure of MDMN, has taken half of your piece of the MDMN pie out of your mouths and sold it to someone else without you knowing about it.

For anyone who wants to learn more, do a search for a website called “Investopedia”. There are definitions for all sorts of investing terms and all kinds of articles and videos to help people become more competent investors.

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This the single best case for WHY we may be able to claw back a significant amount of shares. If the money paid for Les’ covert private placements went to one of Les’ private partnerships/companies vs. MDMN than those shares should legally be cancelled/returned to the Treasury. Conversely, if money paid for the private placement shares went to MDMN and then Les siphoned them out of the company there would be no way to reclaim from the buyers. However, I don’t think the money ever hit MDMN’s accounts (never showed in any of the financials and would have been virtually impossible to hide from others) which means all of those transaction are illegitimate.

Private placement memorandums specifically spell out how the money will/should be sent to the company. If a private placement participant wrote a check to a Les related entity they are sheet out of luck (regardless if they sold or hold their shares). If MDMN has the money to review and pursue all of Les’ BS transaction it will take time, but they should have a fair amount of success.

The forensic audit will also need to review the legitimacy of Vital’s shares and all of the other “friends of Les” (Ian Dow, etc.). They were issued shares at steep discounts to finance the MDMN spending spree. If the money actually paid for legit services they will probably be able to hold those shares. I’d also like to see a review of all of the shares issued to JJ for his crappy claims (remember when certain shareholders excused the massive issuance of shares by being offset by our growing hectares???..unbelievably naive). BUT, any shares held by insiders (Chapin, Tenney, Les, JJ, Claro, Goodin, Vittal) should be returned to the Treasury (for both MDMN and CDCH). With the exception of Les, there should be clemency (from class action lawsuits) if they proactively return those shares (along with NUOCO) and they’d be crazy not to. Les ain’t getting an clemency. He’s toast.

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BE – How long do you envision this process would take or would it more likely get settled out of court? TIA.

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We’re on the same page here.

The property belongs to the owner. The general rule is that “a purchaser of goods acquires only that title which the transferor has or had power to transfer. Because a thief’s title to stolen property is void, (i.e., is no title at all) . . . all subsequent transfers of stolen property are likewise void.” Paulino v. Computer Renaissance, 62 S.W.3d 648

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I don’t see a way forward for Les to be prosecuted for his alleged crimes. The SEC doesn’t seem to care and the BCSC hasn’t batted an eye in his direction in spite of the magnitude of the theft. If neither of these regulatory agencies are going to step in and investigate the crimes, I think we may have a very long road ahead of us. As far as I know, no litigation has been filed on the part of any of the parties involved. I do understand that we are all waiting for the informational meeting to be held which is probably a good idea. However, if no good answers are given by the MDMN proxies at the meeting, I think we have to take the next steps and move towards a class action lawsuit. I would also support notifying criminal authorities to have them dig a little deeper into the situation. I don’t know if there is criminal conduct here but given the circumstances, I think these actions warrant further investigation.

Issuing shares in a public company for funds to be directed to one’s personal accounts is very clearly illegal. Don’t be so impatient. Let the process play out. Outside of Goodin and any other “friend” of Les, people are hard at work on a resolution. I’m feeling more comfortable about a larger clawback of shares and Les is toast. I certainly wouldn’t be “comfortable” if I was one of the many people who participated in one of the many private placements orchestrated by Les. They be toast as well.

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Ditto.

Goes back to what I mentioned about bona fide purchaser for value. If deal too good to be true or proper formalities not followed or payment not being made to the correct party, etc. etc. all would raise a red flag to the purchaser’s knowledge of the legitimacy of the transaction. MDMN can show the sale illegitimate, thereby shifting the burden to the purchaser to show the purchaser was an innocent party (bona fide purchaser). Only if the purchaser could show they are an innocent party would they not have a liability to MDMN, either through returning the shares or monetarily.

Repeating the car analogy in a different way, if I buy a car from Mr. Fake (who I don’t know is Mr. Thief), I pay a reasonable price for the car, Mr. Fake gives me a bill of sale and a signed title, and I register it with the Sec of State and it clears the Sec of State, Mr. Owner (from whom Mr. Thief stole the car) would not have a claim against me and could not recover the car from me because I could defend as a bona fide purchaser. Mr. Owner could only recover from Mr. Fake/Thief. Nothing in the transaction would have made me aware Mr. Fake was a thief and I was buying stolen goods.

However, if I buy a car from Mr. Fake, I pay 10 cents on the dollar value, cash only, I don’t get a bill of sale or title, I don’t register it with the Sec of State, and I use a bogus license plate, then Mr. Owner would have a claim against me and would be able to get the car back from me as I could not defend as a bona fide purchaser because I obviously knew I was buying a stolen car. Mr. Owner would still have a claim against Mr. Fake/Thief and I may also have a claim against Mr. Fake/Thief (depending upon my level of involvement).

Right now we just don’t know the level of involvement and knowledge the private placements had prior to and during the transaction. Hopefully Masglas/Auryn/MDMN provide some concrete details of these transactions (remember what I said prior about keeping these secret, no restrictions exist, its a fact, not an opinion). Once we have these details, we can form a more accurate opinion of what could be done and what Masglas/Auryn/MDMN says they will do to correct the problem.

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Because he’s a greedy POS. Pretty simple.

Agreed … Recent posts and speculation add nothing. It makes sense to hear what the company has to say.

My impression is we have a small number of shareholders that
chose to participate in this poll. It looks to be about forty or so answered
out of the hundred or more registered to attend. I know we have a group of individuals with fairly diverse backgrounds on this board, all with at least one thing in common. Is there anyone here that would not like (need) to see the facts and learn what the plan for returning a decent ROI to all shareholders is by the Medinah BOD? Speculation without facts is pointless. Venting only diminishes this board, IMO. Many would also like to hear where things stand with Cerro Dorado.

I doubt anyone will be wearing moniker nametags at the meeting. For those fortunate enough to be able to make it, I was wondering if anyone here is interested in some socializing with fellow shareholders the evening before the Informational meeting. Might be fun to get together and see who the real person is behind the monikers posting here. If interested, PM me or post. We’d need to arrange a time and meeting place.

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I won’t be attending the meeting. I have never sold a share, but have no inclination to buy any more. Will those attending please share what you learn?? Thanks!

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How do I PM?

Seriously? Really? The world is chock full of unconscionable, thieving, corrupt scumbags who don’t care if you or I live or die. Is this really a new concept to you? We’ve all been had. If Auryn/Masglas is really troubled by Les’s behavior and the mess he left them and us, then I’m sure it will get the attention it warrants. If not, then another despicable criminal dressed in a suit will have gotten away with destroying the lives of the very people he was entrusted to protect. That’s the new American way. The same America I gave 28 years of military service to, so dirtbags could be free to get away with all kinds of schemes and scams to enrich themselves on our dimes. Very sad.

Aardvark

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