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IMO gold can move due to general commodity price inflation (as was seen from 2000 to 2011) or due to flight to safety in a crisis, particularly a crisis in confidence in government money. Out of control price inflation is one form of such crisis. A big war would be another. Another financial system crisis would be another.

Currently:

  1. I don’t see it breaking down very far at least not for any length of time.

There is a strong argument that there could be a big debt crunch / deflation, stocks drop, bonds fall, commodity prices fall farther, a financial system crisis etc. People like Harry Dent see gold in this context and argue gold should fall with everything else in this case, down to $800 yet. But that is a commodity price argument. And it does not sufficiently take into consideration the flight to non-govt. money in that scenario, imo. Gold may fall but less, or stay even, or even rise if something drastic happens, like a major European banking crisis that spreads to the U.S. etc.

  1. Commodity price inflation - gold continues up at a similar pace

Gold has roughly followed the $CRB index since the 2011 breakdown in commodities. In 2016 it caught a flight to safety bid and is up 20%. This change of direction started in January. Other commodities did not follow.

If governments go on an infrastructure build-out binge and cause commodity prices to surge this will lead to some inflation. If oil would happens to start following this new movement in metals, then I would say watch out for inflation getting serious. I would watch the U.S. $1T infrastructure bill (when it arrives) closely and whether other countries follow. But even just the U.S. and China moving in this direction could be enough. Oil would start to play catch up later.

Copper is up almost 20% in a few weeks. You can see how quickly this can start something that is hard to control. The U.S. could be seeking ‘jobs’ and end up stoking the flames of inflation much more than intended. This is especially the case because commodities (the $CRB) is only at 40% of what it was in 2011. This means a bounce up 50% is not too hard to create. And that represents a 50% price increase (inflation) in basic cost inputs to much of the economy. Again, watch oil later in 2017.

If this occurs, gold would catch the commodity price bid as well as the flight to safety bid. It could be a nice steady upward climb as in 2001 to 2011. But then you have to watch what happens after this infrastructure spending thing is over. IMO even if the infrastructure maintenance is needed (and it could well be), the carry through into permanent jobs will be limited, and if there is a let down there will be a call for another $1T and so on. It will be a hard cycle to break.

  1. In the longer term, the dollar is slowly being replaced esp. in Asia first as the primary trading currency and then ultimately the reserve currency. This is intended to be a slow 20 year process not a sudden over night crisis event just like when the British currency was slowly replaced by the dollar after WW1. And in this case it is actually more of a diversification than a replacement. In the long term this means a devaluation of the dollar (inflation) and a rising price of gold in dollars. But this is intended to be a slow process and could be interrupted by sudden short term events in either direction. Ultimately this will have some good results for the U.S. - more competitiveness, probably more manufacturing jobs coming back to the U.S. etc. But out of control inflation or a war could alter the timeline drastically and make gold respond positively more quickly. Or a sudden debt / banking crisis emerging from somewhere seems quite possible and could upset the well made plans of mice and men. This is where the “crisis” ideas of someone like Jim Rickards comes in who predicts an event will happen that leads to a revaluation of gold in dollars (a devaluation of the dollar) in order to stabilize the global financial system.

Ultimately there are many forces at play and any specific short term predictions are just guesses imo. But in the longer term it definitely looks like $1270 gold is a pretty good get.

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Thanks for this, I’d bought some and had put it on the backburner, cause the price was down. I’ll pay more attention now :wink:

The dollar is surging. EM currencies are falling.

I think people are realizing that if Trump and congress get the corporate tax rate slashed to 15% or so and can motivate the repatriation of $3T+ in corporate profits of U.S. internationals who are hoarding cash over seas, this all could be a big windfall for the U.S. and lead to real economic expansion / jobs. Add this to the ‘infrastructure bill’ and the odds of a U.S. resurgence is improving. With all of that perhaps Trump will be able to avoid drastic trade tariff / trade war tactics which causes anxiety in lots of trading partners.

These potential positives are also leading to the surge in the USD (see below). If they actually pass this stuff, watch the USD really surge, imo. The U.S. starts to look very inviting for international capital and so it comes in and stocks surge, the dollar surges, etc.

The follow on side effects is a major crunch for other countries (esp. EM countries) who have major debts in dollars. A rising dollar makes their debts much harder to service. And thus the EM currencies are falling.

Several people have proposed models where a major surge in the USD is the most likely prerequisite for a crisis the next big crisis in the international monetary system. Unlike decades past, there is so much interconnectivity that it is impossible to take major actions in one part of the system (e.g. domestically in the U.S.) without have dramatic effect elsewhere. So it is at least theoretically possible, even probable, that a few years of surging U.S. performance could lead to the next big international crisis. It would be a sort of irony if the Trump election helps the U.S. for a while but ends up hurting the international system (and thus the U.S. secondarily) in the longer term. It will be very interesting to see.

Gold is insurance.

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“a few years” - CHG, perhaps you meant, “a few days”

Crikey, copper is up another 4.7% this morning. It’s a run away train.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-11/central-banks-scramble-halt-emerging-market-carnage-futures-slide

Best week in copper ever (Chinese speculators?): http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-11/copper-having-its-best-week-ever-chinese-speculators-run-amok-again

And look at 10 yr Treasury rates (which is why 30 year mortgage rates have gone up suddenly). Hear that system creaking under the strain?

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Gold taking another beating today who would of thought that it would turn the other way with Trump elected. I believe this is just temporary (2 weeks?) before everyone realizes that world economy is still in the shi**tter.

Thanks for your thoughtful response. That’s a lot to digest, and it seems we’ll likely be on a roller coaster ride for a while.

On a side note, what a great sight it was to see Tommy Armstrong back at the stadium last weekend after that scare.

It did not look good for a while there. Amazingly as of today, it sounds like he may play some tomorrow.

Gold and MUX hammered today, stepped in and bought more. FWIW

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MUX seems like a great buying op here. I’ve got an 11 day trip to Italy to pay for otherwise I’d throw some cash that way.

Looks like gold will test the $1210 level. Then we’ll see which direction we go.

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That’s quite a symmetrical head and shoulders pattern.

a little time / work on the right side and it will be a classic textbook example

Interesting for long term investment, thanks. (Disclosure, I have a position in IVS:CA as it is more liquid than GNGXF)
Anyone here keeping an eye on developments in NovaGold Resources Inc. (NG)?

Barrick and NOVAGOLD Announce the Appointment of Andy Cole as General Manager of the Donlin Gold Project in Alaska

ANCHORAGE, ALASKA – (Marketwired) – 11/14/16 –
Barrick Gold
Corporation (Barrick) (NYSE:ABX)(TSX:ABX) and NOVAGOLD RESOURCES INC.
(NOVAGOLD) (TSX:NG)(NYSE MKT:NG), the owners of Donlin Gold LLC, are
pleased to announce the appointment of Andy Cole as General Manager of
the Donlin Gold project in Alaska. The owners express their sincere
gratitude to Stan Foo, the outgoing General Manager, for his service and
dedication to Donlin Gold during his 12-year tenure at the project.
Mr. Cole has more than 20 years of experience in permitting,
building and operating major gold mines in North America. He comes to
Donlin Gold from Barrick where he was most recently Executive Director,
U.S.A. responsible for permitting, energy, communications, community
relations and corporate social responsibility. Prior to that position,
he served in a variety of senior operating roles, including General
Manager of both the Goldstrike mine, one of Barrick’s largest
operations, and the Ruby Hill mine, both located in Nevada. Mr. Cole is
well known for his active involvement in local campus and mining
education programs and serves on the advisory boards of a number of
university engineering and mining programs. Mr. Cole has an engineering
degree and a Master of Business Administration. As General Manager of
Donlin Gold, he will be relocating to Anchorage, Alaska, and will report
directly to the Board of Donlin Gold LLC, equally represented by the
owners, Barrick and NOVAGOLD.
About the Donlin Gold Project

Donlin Gold is one of the largest undeveloped gold deposits in
the world with an estimated mine life of 27 years and an average gold
grade per tonne that is more than double the gold industry average. The
project’s existing gold resources sit on a three-kilometer portion of an
eight-kilometer belt of known mineralization, with additional gold
targets and exploration upside. As designed to its feasibility study
specifications, or in the staged-development scenarios being studied by
the owners, Donlin Gold has the potential to be one of the largest
gold-producing mines in the industry. The project is located in Alaska,
the second largest gold-producing state in the U.S., and enjoys strong
support from its native corporation partners, as well as from the state
government and its representatives.
http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/NG/news

Yes, I have a position here also, which I have held for a long time.

It’s becoming clearer now: it’s all about the dollar, too few dollars surprisingly, too few dollars outside the U.S. to fund / service all the dollar denominated debt / credit outside the U.S. (eurodollar):

Why is the dollar hitting a 14 year high? Because scarcity is causing a rising price as more and more companies and banks and other institutions outside the U.S. (especially emerging markets) scramble to find dollars to pay off dollar debts to banks - so they pay more and more yen or RMB or whatever to get a buck.

Why are countries selling U.S. treasuries now at a fervent pace?
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/16/reuters-america-update-1-foreign-selling-of-us-treasuries-hits-record-in-september-data.html

It has nothing to do with fear of U.S. government debt or fears of default. It is because they are desperately trying to come up with dollars to to service their tremendous dollar denominated debts. They have to resort to this method because they are unable to get large amounts of dollars from the big international banks - so surprisingly the conclusion is the ongoing collapse of the banks’ willingness to extend more dollar credit or otherwise provide dollars in the international market is in fact the collapse of the eurodollar, that is, the collapse of the dollar as the common reserve currency. It has been ongoing since the Great Recession and is continuing. There are many follow-on conclusions from this insight:

http://www.alhambrapartners.com/2016/11/16/when-cip-meets-the-dollar-shortage-some-economists-start-to-get-it/

https://www.scribd.com/document/331339791/EDLiq#download&from_embed

http://wallstreetexaminer.com/2016/11/great-dollar-shortage-update/

Gold will not truly shine until the strong dollar breaks something or breaks itself. But this is quite likely to be the catalyst the next crisis, imo. But how high does it need to go to make the current squealing turn in to screams?

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The bottom chart is the USD Index. We are now setting daily 14 year highs going back to the 2000 / 2002 period.

The top chart is the USD in Yen, in other words the inverse of the Yen. The Yen is falling like a rock priced in USD. Abe has printed trillions of Yen trying to get the currently to soften (and ‘help’ Japanese exports) but without much effectiveness at least in 2016. Now it decides to weaken like crazy. People will start taking serious note if the Yen gets back above 120. I think the all time high is around 131.

The charts are starting to look a little mania / crazy like. It’s hard to say how long this goes on. But if the USD/YEN gets up into the mid-120s, I think this becomes a top line story. Keep watching.

Gold (now below $1210) (and other commodities) are going nowhere but down under these conditions. Watch oil to see if it starts dropping farther and copper to see if it retraces back to where it started its recent run.

CHG

Nice new play:

As you can see how it has done since the election. It is good possibility that this massive dead gold project will get a green light under new administration although local environmentalists will probably all but declare open war if it happens.

Resuming the trend?

Some may recall that for 2014 and 2015 I presented ongoing data showing a fairly consistent trend of commodity price collapse and how gold followed the same trend as commodities in general. In 2014 oil finally joined the other commodities in a sudden 6 month price collapse. Finally at the end of 2015, the 4 year trend seemed to be over as gold and silver took off for the first half. But the second half did not follow through. I am now presenting some evidence that 2016 1H was an anomaly fueled by massive ongoing European and Japanese QE and even more by a sudden influx of $1T worth of credit expansion in China. This fuel has now been expended and the ongoing trend looks like it may be starting up again:

How can that be possible? Because the dollar, esp. the Eurodollar has been collapsing ever since the GFC. As Jeffrey Snider keeps pointing out, the dollar as the reserve currency, but especially the trading currency of the world can not be thought of as a pile of physical dollars, or even one giant bank account of electronic dollars, nor even a pile of treasury notes. Those are old ways of thinking when money was a physical thing. Money, or the “dollar”, is much more complicated and entwined with the banking and financial entities that make up the system than when we think of think of money as a gold coin. It is a complicated web of international bank balance sheet assets, promises, and obligations that no one really understands in full, especially the Fed. As the banks continue to shrink, the dollar continues to collapse and thus world trade and everything dependent on it collapses in a slow trend, with short term moves above and below trend.

See the trend since 2011 in the dashed blue line in the above charts.

If this is all true, and gold is headed back to trend. It’s is down from here, currently somewhere around $1050, or basically retesting the 2015 lows. Harry Dent is calling for $700 gold. But I don’t think that will happen, or if it does, gold mining will essentially cease and the price will be forced back up. Almost no one can mine gold at $700 / Oz and make money, so they won’t.

Note oil at trend is still above $50, so it is still recovering from it’s vicious fall in 2014.

The recent move in Copper is contrary to all of this, the trend being back down toward it’s lows. It is likely, imo, the recent copper move in copper is just hot Chinese speculative money. When they move on to their next thing copper will resume to trend.

But the trend eventually breaks something somewhere: Chinese currency devaluation, European banks, something else unforeseen. I think gold getting down to production costs sub $1050, maybe $950 or $900, is signaling the end is approaching. It’s hard to see it going much past 2017. Either another crisis comes, the bookend to the GFC, or inflation really does break out in the world economy. More likely, imo, is another deflationary crisis, and then some huge central bank response that really sets off the next wave of crazy. Is the current Trump Trade just a head fake? I think it probably is. IMO, the Trend will be greater than Trump even if he gives it a good try.

I sure hope not! However, for those not familiar with Harry Dent I posted on the old mining play what he was predicting back in April, FWIW:

Harvard Economist Warns “$700 Gold by Mid-2017
Investors are fleeing to gold in a desperate attempt to weather the recent market volatility… but is this long time “safe-haven” actually poised to collapse wiping out trillions of dollars of wealth in the process?

One highly respected Harvard economist is stating an emphatic “yes!”.

“While many economists will argue that gold is not in a bubble… and insist it will soar to $2,000, $5,000 and even $10,000, my research has said otherwise” says Harvard economist Harry Dent in his latest report. “I’ve never been more certain of anything in over 30 years of economic forecasting.”

Market volatility, worries over the Europe Central Bank, negative interest rates, and China are among a laundry list of events that are driving panicked masses to buy the yellow metal. But this is only inflating the gold bubble that is poised to pop at any moment, he says.
http://theminingplay.freeforums.org/post18043.html?hilit=Harry#p18043

and one more (contrarian to above) that may be of interest:

I take the last 3,000 years, roughly. I put it on a yardstick. I ask myself for the greatest amount of that yardstick, what served as money? If you take the last 3,000 years and you put it on a yardstick, for about 32 inches of that yardstick somewhere between 40 and 60 ounces of silver was a solid upper middle class wage.

My question back to you is tell me exactly what you consider to be a solid upper middle class wage today? If you’re like me, you’re going to probably say that it’s around $50 to $60 thousand a year. Some might have a different number. I’m just going to take $50,000 a year, and I’m going to divide that by 40 ounces of silver…[it’s] more than $1,000 an ounce in today’s dollars. [emphasis mine]

Kirby’s response is ingenious, in that it addresses both how and where to begin in the relative pricing of assets, and he supplies us with an objective metric to use in beginning this process: the “average wage”. While critics can quibble, slightly, with the specific metrics he used in this calculation; the methodology itself is unquestionably sound.

The “average wage” is an objectively definable concept. The workers earning that average wage must be paid. Thus we can use that average wage to come up with a price for money – real money (i.e. silver and/or gold). $1,000/ounce for silver is a “starting point” (as noted in the title) in two respects.
Zerohedge

http://theminingplay.freeforums.org/general-discussion-april-2016-t103.html

Reviewing the Numbers for Inventus Mining Corp. (TSXV:IVS)
NOVEMBER 30
…Investors are always on the look-out for the next great trading opportunity. Spotting the next winner to pad the portfolio may involve diligent work and a touch of market magic. Analyzing the sea of information about public companies can be a scary task. Many sharp investors will approach the equity markets from many different angles. This may include keeping close tabs on fundamental and technical data. Inventus Mining Corp. (TSXV:IVS) has a present Value Composite score of 91. This score falls on a scale from 0 to 100 where a lower score would indicate an undervalued company and a higher score would indicate an overvalued company. This ranking was created by James O’Shaughnessy using six different valuation ratios including price to book value, price to sales, EBITDA to EV, price to cash flow, price to earnings, and shareholder yield.
http://highlanddigest.com/reviewing-the-numbers-for-inventus-mining-corp-tsxvivs/24805/